Curse

Winterclaw · May 13, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Seeing that AP is popular with Els for recharging skills, why not nerf it so it only recharges Assassin skills and then buff glyph of renewal for els? Make it one energy cost, 3/4th cast time, no recharge and have it half the recharge of your next spell. Or tie it to energy storage and have it last for 1...3 spells.

AlsPals · May 13, 2011, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Im all for a buff of renewal, even something like 1/2 cast time and next 3 spells recharge in 3/4 the time. I disagree with The promise nerf, though, as it is totally fine as is, and the "Interact with x class skills only" clause set a bad precedent.

Calista Blackblood · May 13, 2011, 07:41 PM // 19:41

AP is also popular with Mesmer's and Necro's,and there's really no reason either why most other professions can't use it. Are you going to suggest buffs or new skills to allow all classes the same functionality of an elite?

This change(regarding AP) is totally unnecessary and would literally ruin PvE for more people that it would benefit.

IronSheik · May 13, 2011, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I can accomplish your elite skill change with my ebon ward of wisdom.

Calista Blackblood · May 13, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I can accomplish your elite skill change with my ebon ward of wisdom.

No you can't. EBSOW only recharges spells when your luck hits,AP recharges all skills inc pve specific all of the time.

NerfHerder · May 13, 2011, 08:15 PM // 20:15

AP Nerf /notsigned

While it is a powerful skill, I can think of plenty of other stuff that needs nerfing first.

Glyph of Renewal Buff /signed

I would go even further and have glyph return some energy as well.

Something like, move to energy storage, Glyph of Renewal- 5e 1sec 20rc- Your next 0..2..3 spells recharge instantly and for every 2 points invested in energy storage you gain 1 energy.

might be a little OP but you get the idea.

AndrewSX · May 13, 2011, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

AP is also popular with Mesmer's and Necro's,and there's really no reason either why most other professions can't use it. Are you going to suggest buffs or new skills to allow all classes the same functionality of an elite?

This change(regarding AP) is totally unnecessary and would literally ruin PvE for more people that it would benefit.

The reason cause he's thinking to eles only is that is prolly the only thing a ele should run in HM for maximum effectiveness (which isn't that great tbh).

Ask Jeydra for example, who is the only person i've ever heard completed Doa HM using a ele atm.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=454

If Ap would get stomped to oblivion Mes or Nec wouldn't be affected so much... Mes have tons of awesome stuff, Necs use it only when nuking in sc's, where Air of Superiority could fill the insta-recharge role.
Eles would see disappear one of the 2 really worthy elites they have (the other is ER). Nothing against Invoke/Bsurge/Unsteady and such, but those pales against what AP allow to do(Human eles using it for Pve skills abuse mostly).

I'll be favorable to a AP nerf only when Eles will be reworked as they deserve.

P.S:if you're looking for a unused elite to fill the insta-recharge for eles only, i'd propose Second Wind instead on Glyph of Renewal btw.

And glyphs could see some love anyway.

Soulfire Ninja · May 13, 2011, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Nerf Assassin's Promise? What did the elite skill ever do to you?
/UNSIGNED!

Lanier · May 13, 2011, 08:30 PM // 20:30

/signed for the AP nerf

I find it silly that anyone would say that nerfing an OP skill would "ruin" PvE for people...

AP in itself isn't necessarily overpowered... its the combination of AP + Eotn PvE skills that is overpowered. While I am all for nerfing the eotn PvE skills, this isn't going to happen. As such, unless all of the offensive eotn PvE skills are nerfed, I support nerfing AP FOR ASSASSING SECONDARIES.

By this, i mean change it so that AP only affects assassin skills. Currently, the only viable alternative to JS>FF>DB spam for assassins is using AP with various, synergizing attack skills (ex: black mantis thrust>jungle strike>trampling ox>falling lotus strike>blades of steel). With the low recharge of the JS>FF>DB chain, there is simply no way another build can compete with it unless AP is used to negate the recharge. Therefore, in my opinion, nerf AP for secondary classes to prevent the abuse of eotn PvE skills but keep it the same for assassins to prevent the class from falling further into an only-one-build-is-viable profession.

EDIT: and combine the AP nerf with a change to elemental lord or intensity that grants armor penetration (scaling) to elementalist skills.

Swingline · May 13, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

AP is like a band aid for eles so chances are it might actually see a nerf. Before ripping off the band aid, I wish they would fix eles in HM, and smite monks, before they swing the nerf bat at AP.

/signed after they fix certain classes.

LifeInfusion · May 13, 2011, 09:30 PM // 21:30

AP is used better on mesmers and necros anyway. The reason AP is good for eles is it is energy management as well and it recharges glyph of lesser energy for even more energy management.

Glyph of Renewal is a gimmick unless it's tied to energy storage: see Mo/E seed of life with glyph of renewal.

It doesn't fix anything if you buff glyph of renewal because the ele damage is not that great to begin with.

Lord Dagon · May 13, 2011, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

AP is like a band aid for eles so chances are it might actually see a nerf. Before ripping off the band aid, I wish they would fix eles in HM, and smite monks, before they swing the nerf bat at AP.

/signed after they fix certain classes.

this is it exactly. I am ok with nerfing AP. But they need to do something about ele in HM. my main is an ele. Short of AP, Searing flames(horribad in HM) and Emo bonder. Really out of those only AP is good for continous damadge and decent on your fingers( emo bonding hurts like hell after awhile.)

So yes im all for nerfing AP as long as they fixes ele's BEFOREHAND. Not after

Mashiyu · May 14, 2011, 12:25 AM // 00:25

they could just buff elementalists until AP/PvE spam looks unattractive compared to real elementalist spells
/notsigned

Jeydra · May 14, 2011, 12:41 AM // 00:41

AP is overpowered, but without a comparable buff to Elementalist skills (and possibly Nec / Mes / Monk offense) then a nerf to AP will have serious, serious consequences in PvE. It wouldn't be "I need to use new builds now", but more of "I can't do ___ anymore".

Those changes you wrote to Glyph of Renewal will not make it much more powerful. For heroes, maybe; for players, no way.

Xenomortis · May 14, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Why cripple Eles and annoy everyone else?
I understand the desire to weaken the OP crap being thrown around, but this is not a good way to do it.

MithranArkanere · May 14, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54

The key word in Assassin's Promise is 'Assassin'.

It's an elite, and the primary uses it waaay less than caster professions.
It shouldn't be like that. An elite skill should ALWAYS be either as useful or more useful to primaries than to secondaries, never less useful.

I would just link the energy gain to critical strikes, and maybe also recharge only assassin skills.

Lanier · May 14, 2011, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Why cripple Eles and annoy everyone else?
I understand the desire to weaken the OP crap being thrown around, but this is not a good way to do it.

The good way to do it is to weaken the OP crap while giving them more viable build options, hence why AP should be nerfed at the same time intensity or elemental lord is changed to give armor penetration to elemental spells.

Think about paragons. Imbagons are overpowered, but paragons dont have much else going for them. Thus, imbagons should be nerfed at the same time other options are buffed. Its the same concept, except much easier for elementalists because they only need one skill change to make a whole bunch of elemental damage builds viable.

Cuilan · May 14, 2011, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

An elite skill should ALWAYS be either as useful or more useful to primaries than to secondaries, never less useful.

Well then there isn't a problem, since assassins use AP themselves now and then for caster builds with a free secondary.

Many players see it as a skill that gives a hero team enough damage, so it makes up for a lack of players.

Making it assassin only would be a kill, since the assassin meta is too spammy (WotA, Death Blossem, non-sin weapons, etc.) to need it.

Elnino · May 14, 2011, 04:38 AM // 04:38

/signed for AP nerf.

/not signed for Glyph of Renewal buff. It will just open up rampant abuse by other professions (mesmers come to mind here). If it was tied to energy storage . . . maybe.

Kunder · May 14, 2011, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Out of all the OP skills in the game, you want to go after the one elite that takes some small shred of player skill to use effectively and which is the key skill in at least half if not more of all effective caster builds (not just ele)? Why?

Quote:

The key word in Assassin's Promise is 'Assassin'.

It's an elite, and the primary uses it waaay less than caster professions.
It shouldn't be like that. An elite skill should ALWAYS be either as useful or more useful to primaries than to secondaries, never less useful.

I would just link the energy gain to critical strikes, and maybe also recharge only assassin skills.

This is a point, though assassin casters are just as amazing with AP, you simply don't see it because assassins have enough other imba builds to run. At most, to prevent ruining the majority of all HM-worthy caster builds that require an IQ over room temperature to play, I would recharge everything but link energy to the # of assassin skills recharged. 1...4...6 energy each.